After switching on for the first time, the keyboard and backlight worked perfectly. However I noticed the following new faults:
1. Airport not installed error message.
2. Bluetooth could find devices, but not pair with them.
3. Magsafe charging light didn't work and battery didn't charge. However, the battery indicator light showed a fully charged battery.
At this stage, I reset the PMC and SMC. I couldn't run the Apple Hardware Test, as my DVD drive was dead. Despite these faults, the computer worked perfectly when plugged into the mains. Yesterday however, I used the computer on battery and allowed the battery to drain completely. Now the computer will not turn on nor charge the battery. The first battery indicator flashes for 5 seconds when the charger is removed. Otherwise the computer is completely dead.
Does anyone have any ideas? I have re-checked all the connections to the logic board and everything is correct. Is the fault likely to be the battery, DC-in board or the logic board? I have determined that the charger isn't at fault as it works on another MacBook. I don't have access to a similar MacBook, so I'm not able to swap batteries.
Help would be much appreciated as I refuse to believe that my much-loved mac is dead, seeing as all I did was to let the battery run dry...
Reply 1 : MacBook Pro unibody, Battery ran dry, computer won't start
It's hard to say, but it sounds like you damaged a number of components while doing the top case replacement. As you're no doubt aware, this involves removing the display assembly, and the logic board, so there's ample room for introducing ESD damage if you're not careful AND know what you're doing.
Without seeing the environment in which you were working, not to mention watching you actually do the replacement, it's impossible to say whether or not ESD damage is likely.
In any case, here's what I'd do. Start by removing the battery and see if the system will power on with the AC adapter alone. If it does, you probably just have a bad battery or you didn't get the battery connection cable in properly. This is one of those cables that runs under the little retaining wall between the logic board and battery/HDD and is in the gap for the locking level on the bottom cover (not the battery cover).
If it still doesn't work after that, you could try removing the logic board and making sure the magsafe board is fully seated in the connection slot, but there was really no need to ever disconnect this from the logic board if you're just doing a top case replacement. But if it's not working after you take the battery out, then the odds of damage to the logic board just went up to near 100%.
To put it another way, based on your description so far, I'd say the most likely scenario is that you damaged the logic board. Nearly every time I've come across a system with similar symptoms as yours, it's the logic board that ends up getting replaced. And the fact that you did this little operation on your own, means that you're going to pay significantly more for someone to fix it. Probably a lot more than the cost of a new system.
The logic board alone, and strangely enough it doesn't seem to matter if yours is the 2.4 or 2.5GHz model, will probably be around $1,000 all on it's own. If it's the 2.8GHz model, that adds about $300 to the price. There's a good chance you damaged cables that are part of the display assembly, so that's at least another $500, then there's the airport card which could be bad, and whatever else may have been damaged, plus labor... You get the idea.
If I were to speculate on what was happening before... You probably damaged some resistor or capacitor related to power distribution. So even when the system said it had a full battery, it was probably running off of battery power. The SMC was probably just confused because it could detect that you have the AC adapter connected. You might have even been supplementing the battery power with a little AC power which allowed you to run off battery power for much longer than normal. But once the battery power ran out, there's not enough AC power to get the system going. If you charged the battery via other means, you may be able to run the system again, but essentially it's ability to charge the battery and run on AC power is mostly likely permanently gone.
In the future, I'd suggest taking your system to a professional, or get some old crappy systems to hone your skills on. And just a few tips to help speed things along:
1: Always make sure to ground yourself. If you don't have an ESD wrist strap or anything like that, find a metal surface to touch.
2: Don't work on any kind of carpeting or linoleum. Both are great for helping you build up a static charge.
3: ALWAYS handle PCBs by their edges and avoid touching anything that is protruding from the board.
4: Do not carry PCBs any more than you have to outside of an antistatic bag
5: NEVER place a PCB in anything OTHER than an anti-static container.
And all the other Working with Sensitive Electronics 101 stuff that I didn't mention.
I respect the people at the iFixIt site, which is most likely where you found the instructions on how to do this procedure, but they often assume that you have some basic knowledge of how to work with electronics. Most people don't. Odds are you're one of them, and you've now joined the ranks of those who have destroyed their first bit of electronics. We've all been there. A few years back, I was trying to change cases on a custom built system of mine... I was in a bit of a hurry, and neglected to put in the standoff screw mounts in, leaving all the solder joints on the motherboard touching the bare metal of the case. That was a good learning experience for me, like this one can be for you.
Without seeing the environment in which you were working, not to mention watching you actually do the replacement, it's impossible to say whether or not ESD damage is likely.
In any case, here's what I'd do. Start by removing the battery and see if the system will power on with the AC adapter alone. If it does, you probably just have a bad battery or you didn't get the battery connection cable in properly. This is one of those cables that runs under the little retaining wall between the logic board and battery/HDD and is in the gap for the locking level on the bottom cover (not the battery cover).
If it still doesn't work after that, you could try removing the logic board and making sure the magsafe board is fully seated in the connection slot, but there was really no need to ever disconnect this from the logic board if you're just doing a top case replacement. But if it's not working after you take the battery out, then the odds of damage to the logic board just went up to near 100%.
To put it another way, based on your description so far, I'd say the most likely scenario is that you damaged the logic board. Nearly every time I've come across a system with similar symptoms as yours, it's the logic board that ends up getting replaced. And the fact that you did this little operation on your own, means that you're going to pay significantly more for someone to fix it. Probably a lot more than the cost of a new system.
The logic board alone, and strangely enough it doesn't seem to matter if yours is the 2.4 or 2.5GHz model, will probably be around $1,000 all on it's own. If it's the 2.8GHz model, that adds about $300 to the price. There's a good chance you damaged cables that are part of the display assembly, so that's at least another $500, then there's the airport card which could be bad, and whatever else may have been damaged, plus labor... You get the idea.
If I were to speculate on what was happening before... You probably damaged some resistor or capacitor related to power distribution. So even when the system said it had a full battery, it was probably running off of battery power. The SMC was probably just confused because it could detect that you have the AC adapter connected. You might have even been supplementing the battery power with a little AC power which allowed you to run off battery power for much longer than normal. But once the battery power ran out, there's not enough AC power to get the system going. If you charged the battery via other means, you may be able to run the system again, but essentially it's ability to charge the battery and run on AC power is mostly likely permanently gone.
In the future, I'd suggest taking your system to a professional, or get some old crappy systems to hone your skills on. And just a few tips to help speed things along:
1: Always make sure to ground yourself. If you don't have an ESD wrist strap or anything like that, find a metal surface to touch.
2: Don't work on any kind of carpeting or linoleum. Both are great for helping you build up a static charge.
3: ALWAYS handle PCBs by their edges and avoid touching anything that is protruding from the board.
4: Do not carry PCBs any more than you have to outside of an antistatic bag
5: NEVER place a PCB in anything OTHER than an anti-static container.
And all the other Working with Sensitive Electronics 101 stuff that I didn't mention.
I respect the people at the iFixIt site, which is most likely where you found the instructions on how to do this procedure, but they often assume that you have some basic knowledge of how to work with electronics. Most people don't. Odds are you're one of them, and you've now joined the ranks of those who have destroyed their first bit of electronics. We've all been there. A few years back, I was trying to change cases on a custom built system of mine... I was in a bit of a hurry, and neglected to put in the standoff screw mounts in, leaving all the solder joints on the motherboard touching the bare metal of the case. That was a good learning experience for me, like this one can be for you.
Reply 2 : MacBook Pro unibody, Battery ran dry, computer won't start
Firstly, thanks to Jimmy Greystone for his speedy and knowledgeable advice. Hats off to you, sir.
Yes, a fault on the logic board was also my guess. However, despite trying hard not too, I still managed to omit some important information. Before I get to that however, I'll reply to some of your points to aid the diagnosis.
1. I have successfully repaired mac logic boards before (G4 iBook GPU dry joints etc), and I'm fairly certain I didn't introduce new damage.
2. The computer will not start without the battery in place. Funnily enough, the first thing I did this morning was to replace the battery cable and the indicator cable, to no avail. Anyway, I'm 99% sure that none of the cables are damaged and that all are correctly seated.
3. The DC-in board is correctly seated - that was also something I checked this morning.
4. I'm sure that the computer was not soley running off battery power since the top case was replaced, seeing as I've been using it for around 10 hours a day, for the past 7 days. That's one hell of a battery
As the computer seems to run fine from the mains, whilst the battery has some charge, I think I'll just try to find another system that I can charge the battery in and treat it as a stationery computer. The logic board probably is damaged. The reason the keyboard had to be replaced, was that I spilt a cup of coffee in it the week I bought it, however it took two years before the keyboard failed completely. If the logic board survived scot free, I'd be amazed. However I want to make this system last as long as possible, so any other advice would be greatfully received.
Ps Jimmy, I liked the tone of your reply - great words of warning for the younger or less experienced members of this forum.
Yes, a fault on the logic board was also my guess. However, despite trying hard not too, I still managed to omit some important information. Before I get to that however, I'll reply to some of your points to aid the diagnosis.
1. I have successfully repaired mac logic boards before (G4 iBook GPU dry joints etc), and I'm fairly certain I didn't introduce new damage.
2. The computer will not start without the battery in place. Funnily enough, the first thing I did this morning was to replace the battery cable and the indicator cable, to no avail. Anyway, I'm 99% sure that none of the cables are damaged and that all are correctly seated.
3. The DC-in board is correctly seated - that was also something I checked this morning.
4. I'm sure that the computer was not soley running off battery power since the top case was replaced, seeing as I've been using it for around 10 hours a day, for the past 7 days. That's one hell of a battery
As the computer seems to run fine from the mains, whilst the battery has some charge, I think I'll just try to find another system that I can charge the battery in and treat it as a stationery computer. The logic board probably is damaged. The reason the keyboard had to be replaced, was that I spilt a cup of coffee in it the week I bought it, however it took two years before the keyboard failed completely. If the logic board survived scot free, I'd be amazed. However I want to make this system last as long as possible, so any other advice would be greatfully received.
Ps Jimmy, I liked the tone of your reply - great words of warning for the younger or less experienced members of this forum.
Reply 3 : MacBook Pro unibody, Battery ran dry, computer won't start
You can try replacing the magsafe board. I don't think I've ever once had one of those go bad on me, since there's almost nothing to them, but they're cheap so why not?
It might also be worth looking for a good picture on where the pads are to short the system. Disconnect the keyboard and top case cables, and there should be two pads near the yellow optical drive connector. That would tell you if the top case just has a bad/stuck power button. It's a long shot, but it'll take you all of maybe 5 minutes to test, including taking out all the screws, so why not? It's also easiest to do this with only AC power, so you can just pull it if you see activity. Not sure if the iFixIt site will have this or not.
And it couldn't hurt to make sure that the webcam/BT/airport cable is in properly. This is the one coming off the left side of the display that you have to route around the optical drive. Think on that model it actually is glued down onto the optical drive. In any case, those cables tend to work free fairly easily, and in later models Apple sticks a little retaining pad on there. Also make sure that the side with the U's on it is DOWN, as in facing the logic board. Those are grounding points. I've seen that cable cause some strange issues before. All I did was reseat it on one system, and it magically cured about three different symptoms that should have been completely unrelated. And again, takes you all of a few seconds to try, so what do you have to lose? Not like you can get much worse than having a non-functioning system.
If shorting the pads doesn't work though, then it's all but certain the logic board is toast. And I would suspect that maybe the logic board didn't get off as scot free as you think. Might have been a few components that should have given out a long time ago, and some little stress put upon them by removing the logic board was enough to finally let nature run its course.
I will say one thing for you however, you at least own up to spilling something on your system. You wouldn't believe how many people seem to think they can get away with this sort of thing. They don't seem to realize that it takes a few days for the corrosion to really become evident. Actually had a system recently where there was LARGE amounts of corrosion on the logic board, and the LVDS connector had a big chip in it, but amazingly the only thing really wrong with it was the backlight wasn't working. But there are other people who will swear up and down that they've never spilled ANYTHING on their laptop, despite residue spots all over the place, particularly around the LSI stickers which have also tripped. I was actually a little impressed with someone who thought they could get away with scratching off an LSI sticker that had tripped. That showed a little more foresight than the average person. Of course it's just as obvious as a big pink spot, but I commend them for the effort.
So, let this be another lesson for those out there who may read this. If you spill something on your laptop, just admit it. Any half-way decent tech will spot it and then it just makes things awkward for everyone involved. However clever you think you are at concealing the damage, you'll never get rid of all of it, and in a few days time it will start corroding parts of the system which makes all kinds of pretty blues and greens which are VERY easy to see. So unless you want to take your chances at getting a colorblind repair tech, just admit it, or accept the consequences of your stupidity in that you now have to buy a new computer.
It might also be worth looking for a good picture on where the pads are to short the system. Disconnect the keyboard and top case cables, and there should be two pads near the yellow optical drive connector. That would tell you if the top case just has a bad/stuck power button. It's a long shot, but it'll take you all of maybe 5 minutes to test, including taking out all the screws, so why not? It's also easiest to do this with only AC power, so you can just pull it if you see activity. Not sure if the iFixIt site will have this or not.
And it couldn't hurt to make sure that the webcam/BT/airport cable is in properly. This is the one coming off the left side of the display that you have to route around the optical drive. Think on that model it actually is glued down onto the optical drive. In any case, those cables tend to work free fairly easily, and in later models Apple sticks a little retaining pad on there. Also make sure that the side with the U's on it is DOWN, as in facing the logic board. Those are grounding points. I've seen that cable cause some strange issues before. All I did was reseat it on one system, and it magically cured about three different symptoms that should have been completely unrelated. And again, takes you all of a few seconds to try, so what do you have to lose? Not like you can get much worse than having a non-functioning system.
If shorting the pads doesn't work though, then it's all but certain the logic board is toast. And I would suspect that maybe the logic board didn't get off as scot free as you think. Might have been a few components that should have given out a long time ago, and some little stress put upon them by removing the logic board was enough to finally let nature run its course.
I will say one thing for you however, you at least own up to spilling something on your system. You wouldn't believe how many people seem to think they can get away with this sort of thing. They don't seem to realize that it takes a few days for the corrosion to really become evident. Actually had a system recently where there was LARGE amounts of corrosion on the logic board, and the LVDS connector had a big chip in it, but amazingly the only thing really wrong with it was the backlight wasn't working. But there are other people who will swear up and down that they've never spilled ANYTHING on their laptop, despite residue spots all over the place, particularly around the LSI stickers which have also tripped. I was actually a little impressed with someone who thought they could get away with scratching off an LSI sticker that had tripped. That showed a little more foresight than the average person. Of course it's just as obvious as a big pink spot, but I commend them for the effort.
So, let this be another lesson for those out there who may read this. If you spill something on your laptop, just admit it. Any half-way decent tech will spot it and then it just makes things awkward for everyone involved. However clever you think you are at concealing the damage, you'll never get rid of all of it, and in a few days time it will start corroding parts of the system which makes all kinds of pretty blues and greens which are VERY easy to see. So unless you want to take your chances at getting a colorblind repair tech, just admit it, or accept the consequences of your stupidity in that you now have to buy a new computer.
Reply 4 : MacBook Pro unibody, Battery ran dry, computer won't start
Currently all indications are that the fault is at the magsafe board, though not wishing to waste money on a new board needlessly, I checked if it was delivering the correct voltages. There was indeed continuity between the four inputs carrying current and the logic board. However, I could not determine if the charge control circuit was working. So I did a bit of surfing and found this thread:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=12134590�
Both Dom and Christopher describe exactly the problem I describe. I also have an incredibly weak green light (virtually invisible) when the connector is plugged in. Both their problems were solved when the magsafe board was replaced.
I suspect the problem is with the single small logic chip on the magsafe board, which I would guess is probably concerned with charge control. The magsafe board is not in any way corroded, nor is the logic board, though both show signs of exposure to extreme heat. I suspect the root cause of the current problem is not the spill (though this caused the keyboard and backlight to eventually fail), but extreme heat generated by running 3DS Max on Windows XP/Bootcamp for extended periods of time. I also suspect that the vent holes at the back of the case were sometimes covered?
Also, the Airport / Wifi issue appears to be software related. I am currently writing this on another macbook pro, whose WIFI normally works perfectly. However I booted it from the hard drive that was in the problem machine and WIFI no longer works - "Airport not configured". At this point I should also mention that when I replaced the keyboard and topcase, I also put in a new and larger hard drive, on which I did a clean install of OS X Snow Leopard, and then migrated all my programs and user data from the stock hard drive. I suspect if I'd used the original Leopard install disk, then upgraded to Snow Leopard, this problem wouldn't have happened.
Anyway, the magsafe board has been ordered. I will update as and when.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=12134590�
Both Dom and Christopher describe exactly the problem I describe. I also have an incredibly weak green light (virtually invisible) when the connector is plugged in. Both their problems were solved when the magsafe board was replaced.
I suspect the problem is with the single small logic chip on the magsafe board, which I would guess is probably concerned with charge control. The magsafe board is not in any way corroded, nor is the logic board, though both show signs of exposure to extreme heat. I suspect the root cause of the current problem is not the spill (though this caused the keyboard and backlight to eventually fail), but extreme heat generated by running 3DS Max on Windows XP/Bootcamp for extended periods of time. I also suspect that the vent holes at the back of the case were sometimes covered?
Also, the Airport / Wifi issue appears to be software related. I am currently writing this on another macbook pro, whose WIFI normally works perfectly. However I booted it from the hard drive that was in the problem machine and WIFI no longer works - "Airport not configured". At this point I should also mention that when I replaced the keyboard and topcase, I also put in a new and larger hard drive, on which I did a clean install of OS X Snow Leopard, and then migrated all my programs and user data from the stock hard drive. I suspect if I'd used the original Leopard install disk, then upgraded to Snow Leopard, this problem wouldn't have happened.
Anyway, the magsafe board has been ordered. I will update as and when.
Reply 5 : MacBook Pro unibody, Battery ran dry, computer won't start
Just to confirm, the problem was indeed the MagSafe board. the computer now turns on, charges etc and is completely useable.
The Bluetooth/airport still doesn't work, but that is circumvented by tethering my iPhone via usb.
So all in all, a very cheap fix.
The Bluetooth/airport still doesn't work, but that is circumvented by tethering my iPhone via usb.
So all in all, a very cheap fix.
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